I see the post topic is right! I never challenged the Org. view of the FDS. I actually asked, if they are supposed to be the ones in charge, how come the GB have taken over since 1975? Shouldn't the FDS be in charge? And if you mistakenly believe the GB is the FDS, check again - the Org says they are all the remnant of the 144000 alive today. And nobody on the GB asked their permission to rule in their place! And if any of the FDS objects, they are disfellowshipped! In fact, the May WT says even the ministerial servants and elders, neither of which belong to the FDS, are more important in the Org. I don't blame you for keeping your eyes closed and saying you will leave it to Jehovah to judge while you blindly follow. I used to be the same way! - But we are a little different - the GB says YOU should not be using this site. In the past, I would have obeyed them. But honestly, I am glad you ignore their instructions. It's a good start, and we can at least have this conversation.
James Free
JoinedPosts by James Free
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Is It Impossible To Reach A Devout JW ???
by minimus ini wonder.
a very typcal witness may see the obvious negatives that jws know they have.
they might acknowledge that there's often a lack of love, that the elders can be demanding, that "new light" can change long cherished beliefs in an instant.......but still they cling on and resist any sort of intellectual discussion as to why the witnesses are off soooooo many times.....what gives??
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Is It Impossible To Reach A Devout JW ???
by minimus ini wonder.
a very typcal witness may see the obvious negatives that jws know they have.
they might acknowledge that there's often a lack of love, that the elders can be demanding, that "new light" can change long cherished beliefs in an instant.......but still they cling on and resist any sort of intellectual discussion as to why the witnesses are off soooooo many times.....what gives??
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James Free
Ah, so that's the difference...Just wondering, how respectful of God is it to falsely claim authority from him? You know, like the GB does even when it admits all power was given to the FDS, yet says the 'represent' them, even without seeking any permission to do so.? That sounds even more like something Satan would do...thanks.
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JW told us: Actually only 800 Annointed left!!
by Lady Liberty injust recieved a e-mail from a active jw friend.
my mom was talking to a friend from bethal and they were talking about the number of the 144,000 that are left(..... and i talked briefly about this)and how they feel that there are actually less then 800and remember .....i said there had been a talk or something on it?
well i guess it was a wt article that we studied(well i knew i had heard it somewhere!
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James Free
Most likely someone wasn't paying attention and missed off a zero. 8000 became 800 and a new round of gossip began.....
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Is It Impossible To Reach A Devout JW ???
by minimus ini wonder.
a very typcal witness may see the obvious negatives that jws know they have.
they might acknowledge that there's often a lack of love, that the elders can be demanding, that "new light" can change long cherished beliefs in an instant.......but still they cling on and resist any sort of intellectual discussion as to why the witnesses are off soooooo many times.....what gives??
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James Free
"It is because they are 'captives of a concept' The concept that it is God's Organization, and as long as they believe that..." This is my view. I have a degree, am considered clever by many, but I fell for the JW Org. claptrap for many years. Why? Because, although I could see many wrongs, I was assured it was God's org. and to leave it was certain death. "Humble people wait on Jehovah to fix the rest." But eventually, something within me made me wake up to the possibility I was being conned. Like many others, reading Ray Franz's book was the clincher. He put into words what I had been seeing and thinking for years! I won't say it is impossible, but almost. The org. is so good at making you believe ANY disagreement with the Org is part of a trap by Satan himself to destroy a person's faith. So people resist any such challenge. (Interesting that Resister is one of the meanings of Satan or devil - ironic) Doubts must start from within. Then, and only then, can the truth get out. As a devout believer, I may have even read Ray's book and rejected what he said as apostate...
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Let's just get something straight about 1975.
by WTFBBQPWNT innobody ever said that the end was coming in 1975.. all the hype about this date that has continued all the way down through today came from a talk in the early 70's by fred franz.
in this talk, franz pointed out the significance of the 7 creative days and how they correspond with 1,000-year time intervals.. he then said, "could the end come in 1975?
there's so much wrong with jehovah's witnesses from their rigid legalism to their faux love, but let's call a spade a spade about the 1975 thing..
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James Free
I was there.
It's true the WTS did not make such a bold statement that 1975 was going to be the end. But it is also true that it was expected, and articles and talks encouraged such thinking. I myself heard one speaker at a district convention saying it was ok to get into debt because you would not have to make the payments! School kids were told not to bother with their exams because they would be no use in a few months. "Months", not 'Years" was the word used in the Kingdom Ministry to rouse up the pioneer spirit. How many 'Months' ago was that!!!
Independant thinking is not allowed inside the Org. If it got said from the convention platforms it was sanctioned from the very top. Blaming the wayward expectations of the brothers is a rewriting of history - more plainly - A LIE.
And I am a Witness to that.
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The Internet: A greater threat to the WTS than we ever dreamed
by Elsewhere inchange "politician" to "watchtower leadership" and "voter" to "jehover's witness".
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20061004/2006-10-04t005304z_01_l03419567_rtridst_0_news-google-politicians-dc.html.
google boss warns politicians about internet power.
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James Free
The Internet: A greater threat to the WTS than we ever dreamed
The Internet damages the WTS, but is not much of a threat. The damage comes by alerting the public to the WTS before the potential convert is trapped into the 'expect persecution coz Satan doesn't want you to know this...' manipulation that happens at the beginning of a 'study' course. Less people are conned into the 'truth' than before, and those with doubts can find out what they need to know.
But I am not sure I would call it a threat. The average Witness is trained to reject anything said that is negative as a test from Satan himself! They close their minds to anything that is contrary to the WTS, and so growth from within continues. If you discounted children getting baptized, the final figures would be shockingly poor, but the WTS is not about to implode, more's the pity.
The WTS is certainly in decline, in numbers and in 'quality'. The Internet plays its part. A threat, no - but a bloody nose - definitely!
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PROOF JESUS DIED ON A CROSS
by Mary inwarning: some might find the descriptions here disturbing.
even though there is overwhelming evidence that jesus died on a cross and not an upright state, the organization still stubbornly clings to this feeble idea, siting of course, the ridiculous notion that, because the cross was a 'pagan symbol', jesus couldn't have died on it.
as if the romans gave a damn that the cross was pagan.
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James Free
I think the Society teaches the upright pole rather than the cross just so they can be different from other churches like so many of their bogus teachings.
This is my opinion too. I don't know the exact shape and dimensions of the stake/cross, and nor does anyone else. I don't push single views anymore like the WT does - it's best to leave room for all possibilities.
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You Will Know By The Love They Have Among Themselves
by Corvin inthe organization of jehovah's witnesses boasts of having true brotherly love for one another.
i always believed they did, although i never felt it growing up in it.
i reckoned that there was something wrong with me since i never felt that "joy" and "spirit of love" that supposedly permeated the congregations.
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James Free
You read of those heart warming stories in the magazines, in the books, and hear them over and over again from the platform, yet, when you look around, you fail to see it.
This is one way the WT gets away with it. When you don't see the love, and you won't, you conclude it must be something wrong with you, or with your local congregation. But you never quite make the leap to conclude it's an organization-wide problem.
Since Jesus said it was to be an identifying mark of true Christians - as since genuine love it is generally absent from the JW faith you can see that they are NOT the true religion. You don't need to get bogged down in doctrinal discussion - this reason alone disqualifies them.
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Last Night A Young Elder Got Announced As Being---- Deleted!
by minimus inmy mom told me that the new elder that just got appointed 6 months ago was now deleted.
this young man is in his early 30's, unmarried, and now history.
what could've happened??
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James Free
What could've happened?? I remember he used to have a "problem" with masturbation. About 6 years ago he was deleted as a MS because he was caught dating a girl that became a publisher but seemed obviously more interested in him than the "good news".
Wow, you know so many PERSONAL details about this guy.
What could've happened?? Hmm is it really any of your business?
I feel sorry for this guy, not because he was deleted, but because his personal business is known by all. This happens all the time in congregations, of course. Gossip is alive and well.
The only missing is the 'intense love' that is an identifying factor of true followers of Jesus - you know, the sort that 'covers over' the weaknesses of others! Let's hope he reflects on that, and dumps this false religion completely.
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Raymond Franz is a good man
by slimboyfat ini have come across some old threads that make various accusations against rayfranz, but i think on the whole he seems a kind and thoughtful person.
he didn't do everything right, and he is no saint as some make out: his expulsion is a bit flatteringly called a "crisis of conscience", but he came to terms with the disorienting situation well and did a service to all involved with the witnesses by giving us a look behind the curtain.
some of the things that people hold against him it seems:.
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James Free
He has helped more people escape Bondage than (any) other I know
He has helped thousands, including myself, to clearly see the WT for what it is. He was a part of the 'machine', but so was I. Perfect? No, but he would be the first to admit that - and that also shows what sort of man he is.